Pila Mulligan: greetings
Storm Nordwind imagines the teeth of a road snarling ;)
Pila Mulligan: I regret having been unable to attend the previous two sessions, Maxine
Maxine Walden: hi, Myna
Myna Maven: Hello, Maxine. Hello, all.
Pila Mulligan: hi Storm, hi Myna
Storm Nordwind: Hi Pila
Maxine Walden: oh, Pila, glad to have you, we will review very briefly the main themes and then try to look for at dreams and dreaming
Maxine Walden: look more at dreams and dreaming
Pila Mulligan: thanks
Caledonia Heron: hi Maxine ::)
Maxine Walden: Hey Cal, nice to see you
Lia Rikugun: hello
Caledonia Heron: same here :)
Maxine Walden: and Lia, hello
Caledonia Heron: would you like to meet here or in the other room at the far end of the Cafe?
Maxine Walden: ah, trying to think.
Maxine Walden: We would likely have a quieter time in the other room
Caledonia Heron: yes, some groups have taken to meeting in there to reduce disruptions, etc
Caledonia Heron: as you prefer :)
Alfred Kelberry: hey!
Maxine Walden: maybe if we wait another minute or two to see if others join us.
Maxine Walden: hi, Alfred
Maxine Walden: hi Fefonz
Alfred Kelberry: hi, maxine the dream expert :)
Fefonz Quan: Hello for the Dream Team :)
Storm Nordwind: The 'other room' by the way, is called "The Diner"
Storm Nordwind: Where we are now is called "The Lounge"
Alfred Kelberry: ah, good to know, storm. thanks :)
Storm Nordwind: And guess where "The Bar" is ;)
Pila Mulligan: by the entrance
Alfred Kelberry: i hope we'll get to dine your "as" workshop on friday :)
Caledonia Heron: lol, I will guess :)
Alfred Kelberry: pila gets a cookie - the winner! :)
Alfred Kelberry: here is fine by me
Alfred Kelberry: hey, tr!
Alfred Kelberry: bleep :P
Storm Nordwind: We're already in the Lounge. You might want to try the Diner to see what's it's like sometime
TR Amat: Hi Alfred
Alfred Kelberry: what's the topic today?
Maxine Walden: Yes, I would suggest we try to diner, which may give a nice atmosphere
Maxine Walden: I'll mention the topic when we are there.
TR Amat: Taking over the world using philosophy?
Alfred Kelberry: alright
Alfred Kelberry: let's take a walk :)
Alfred Kelberry: grab the donuts! :)
Myna Maven: :)
Maxine Walden: thanks, everyone for coming
Maxine Walden: Just to briefly review
TR Amat: Need some Eccels Cakes :)
Maxine Walden: we have been considering the dream
Alfred Kelberry: has anyone dreamed of maxine yet? :)
Maxine Walden: as organizer, messenger, problem solver
Maxine Walden: and at the interface between the conscious and the unconscious
Maxine Walden: regions of the psyche.
Alfred Kelberry: membrane, yes
Maxine Walden: Last time I tried to present a dream, but
Maxine Walden: I feel that it was very dense and difficult to fully think and talk about
Maxine Walden: here in a workshop way
Maxine Walden: so I thought it might be nice to just begin today's talk with a very short dream
TR Amat: I find dreams vary. A lot. :)
Maxine Walden: which we could think about
Maxine Walden: and how context and so influences the 'meaning' of the dream
Alfred Kelberry: so.. guess no one has dreamed of maxine here yet :/
Maxine Walden: how about you, Alf?
TR Amat: I'm so bad with names that I could have but just been unable to name her. :)
Alfred Kelberry: i've never seen an sl related dream
Maxine Walden: It would be interesting if I came into someone's dream, but I will start with a small dream I had just last night
Alfred Kelberry: guess i'm not here enough :)
TR Amat: I've had far too many SL related dreams.
Alfred Kelberry: haha, tr :)
Alfred Kelberry: tell us, please
Storm Nordwind mentions that everyone can change their pose by touching their chair (cycle of 6 poses)
Maxine Walden: This dream bit seemed to be embedded in the midst
Maxine Walden: of other dream material which I could ot recall on waking
Alfred Kelberry: wow, 6! thanks, storm
Maxine Walden: The bit is: that I had small lamps in the back of my car
Maxine Walden: and was wondering whether to take them out or not,
Maxine Walden: aware in the dream that I did not have
Maxine Walden: good spaces or locations for those lamps
Maxine Walden: and might just have to put them back
Alfred Kelberry: no menu, storm :/
Maxine Walden: in the car. (end of dream bit)
Maxine Walden: My thought about the dream:
Maxine Walden: I had been recently wondering about sources of internal
Maxine Walden: illumination, those things that inspire and inform us
Pila Mulligan: :)
Maxine Walden: such as the quiet products of learning from experience
Maxine Walden: and the experience of trusted friends
Maxine Walden: vs the inspiration held in highly praised
Maxine Walden: books and writings of renowned teachers.
Maxine Walden: So the dream may suggest that it is valuable
Maxine Walden: to assess what are the smaller sources of illumination
Maxine Walden: (small lamps in the back seat)
Maxine Walden: which may offer more clutter than help.
Maxine Walden: And might not warrant being unpacked at all.
Maxine Walden: For me the best illumination/inspiration
Maxine Walden: comes from my own quiet experience in inner pondering
Alfred Kelberry: is it your own interpretation or it's based on some dream theory?
Maxine Walden: and those of trusted friends
Maxine Walden: this is my own interpretation, Alf,
Alfred Kelberry: ok
Maxine Walden: I really feel that only the dreamer can really interpret his/her dream
Maxine Walden: because only the dreamer can ponder and find meaning from recent experience
Alfred Kelberry: yes, he's the one to know the context :)
Maxine Walden: in the symbols of the dram
Storm Nordwind: I think that the dreamer can recognise whether someone else's interpretation of their dream is correct or not
Maxine Walden: Right, and just one more thought from the dream
Alfred Kelberry: but then, it reminds me of astrology or taro reading of some sort :)
Maxine Walden: an overarching thought is to be discerning about sources of inspiration
Maxine Walden: which is not too surprising a concern for those of us who are searching all the time in our learning and growth
Pila Mulligan: and the individual interprets waking their expereince alone, as well
Pila Mulligan: their wking expereince *
Maxine Walden: yes, Storm, and Pila agree about the sense of resonance about interpretations of the dream;
Maxine Walden: it just seem to fit or not, the interpretation offered by self or other
Pila Mulligan: the reduction of thoughts to images seems to be a dream function
Pila Mulligan: or expansion, perhaps (vs. reduction)
Maxine Walden: We could pause here, or I could mention a couple of added things about the dreaming process
Maxine Walden: yes, Pila, that is just what I was going to think aloud about, the dreaming function
Fefonz Quan: intersting idea, Pila
Pila Mulligan: please continue :)
Maxine Walden: I have found it useful to consider the dreaming process, which for me means
Maxine Walden: the transformation of sensory (visual, auditory, usually) data
Maxine Walden: into symbolic, thinkable bits, often into metaphor, symbolic pictures and the like
Maxine Walden: but often the dream may be a voice, word, sound which carries potential meaning as well. Potential because it has to be thought about for meaning to be 'seen'
Pila Mulligan: as in 'a picture is worth a thousand words' :)
Maxine Walden: We poke as well about the nite mare kind of dream
Maxine Walden: intense, frightening
Maxine Walden: awakening the dreamer at times
Maxine Walden: this kind of 'dream' in which the raw 'stuff' cannot be transformed
Maxine Walden: into a symbol, but the 'stuff' breaks through the barrier
Maxine Walden: between the 'raw' unconscios and the dream image which comes closer to consciousness
Banana Nut Muffin whispers: Hmmm, a fresh baked muffin!
Maxine Walden: There seems to be a barrier, at the boundary
Maxine Walden: between the conscious and unconscious mind
Maxine Walden: and the dreaming function, the transforming function may reside at that boundary
Pila Mulligan: Meher Baba wrote that people come closest to god at the boundary between waking and sleeping
Maxine Walden: allowing 'stuff' to come closer to consciousness via the dream
Maxine Walden: interesting, Pila, similar thoughts
Alfred Kelberry: pila, eh, that's deep :)
Fefonz Quan: closer to which god ? :)
Maxine Walden: just what comprises the dream function is hard to know, at least for me, but
Fefonz Quan: the dream god?
Pila Mulligan: yes, an element of the cooment, Fefonz :)
Maxine Walden: it seems to me to be very similar
Maxine Walden: to the function that a mother plays
Alfred Kelberry: i say we hack the transformation block to find out how it works and then assemble a decryptor :)
Maxine Walden: in sorting out the distress of her fussy baby
TR Amat: A transdence/transcendent being of some sort?
Alfred Kelberry: oh, what's that? half an hour?
Maxine Walden: Maybe dreams with meaning only occur for those who have had the experience of an empathic mothering presence
Fefonz Quan: that can be easily checked, isn't it maxine?
Pila Mulligan: hmm, could that limitation mean orphans lack dreams?
Maxine Walden: Anyway, that summarizes what I had thought to bring today
TR Amat: I've has dreams that seemed precognitive, in a deja vu sense...
Pila Mulligan: or menaingful dreams?
TR Amat: had*
Maxine Walden: think most of us even orphans have had empathic human contact, but I have know
Maxine Walden: known folks which traumatic and deprived lives who indeed do not recall dreams
Storm Nordwind is Offline
Maxine Walden: and we are talking about remembered dreams here
Maxine Walden: even tho we likely dream all the time
TR Amat: Just because you don't recall them doesn't mean you don't have dreams.
Maxine Walden: I really agree, TR, that we really dream all the time...
Myna Maven: Or have individuals with distressed backgrounds cut off access and memory of dreams because it is safer for them.
Lia Rikugun: can you exercise recalling them?
Maxine Walden: I am suggesting that the remembered dream is similar to the mothered experience
TR Amat: Traumatic lives may teach to awaken as immediately as possible, so as to be ready to defend yourself, and my experience suggest rapid wakening tends to interfere with later recall of dreams.
Pila Mulligan: I may contradict your theory, Maxine -- I rememebr dreams easily and had a gnarly sot as a mother
Maxine Walden: yes, Myna, it may be 'safer' to not recall dreams in certain circumstances
Maxine Walden: Pila, great to disagree
Pila Mulligan: :)
TR Amat: I don't think the relationship is as simple as you suggest, Maxine, though there is likey some connection.
Maxine Walden: let us know your experience
Myna Maven: And I should have said "some" individuals, not meaning an absolute.
Fefonz Quan: ki don't quite follow your suggestion maxine, there are many kind of dreams, bizarre more or less, what do they ahve to do with mother's empathy?
TR Amat: likely*
Maxine Walden: this is what a workshop is for
Alfred Kelberry: i don't recall my dreams cause i don't pay much attention to them
Lia Rikugun: i think thats the same fo rme
Maxine Walden: Yes, I may not have organized my understanding of these
TR Amat: Dreams can be highly entertaining to recall. :)
Maxine Walden: various kinds of dreams very well today
Maxine Walden: because I agree that there are
Fefonz Quan: Yes TR :)
Alfred Kelberry: tr, it would be entertaining if i could program them :)
Maxine Walden: many types of dreams: chaotic, nite mares, and quietly communicatie
Maxine Walden: ones, and it is the quietly communicative that I am suggesting
TR Amat: I'm not sure learning Lucid Dreaming is altogether healthy.
Pila Mulligan: I entirely agree that dreams help in sorting out distress and contraqdictions
Maxine Walden: may resemble a mother's transformation of her baby's distress, making meaning out of the unthought about
Storm Nordwind is Online
Pila Mulligan: as in the metaphor of mother and fussy baby
Pila Mulligan: wb Storm
TR Amat: Dreams are a variety of thinking, and may be one way for our unconscious parts to communcate with our consciousness.
Maxine Walden: yes, wb, Storm
Storm Nordwind: Thank you
Maxine Walden: exactly, TR!
Fefonz Quan: is the mother making sense of the baby's unthoguhts?
Maxine Walden: dreaming is a kind of thinking, in just that way
Fefonz Quan: i've lost it here
TR Amat: Before SL dreams were as close as I got to personal experience of vehicle-free flying. :)
Alfred Kelberry: maxine, did you have people in your practice who have seen something terrible in their dreams and then couldn't get over it being afraid it may happen to them?
Maxine Walden: yes, the mother is making sense, showing her baby that sense can be made of the distress
Maxine Walden: yes, Alf, those might be traumatic dreams
Fefonz Quan: i thought the distress can be relieved, no reason/sense needed
Pila Mulligan: the mother (or dream) is offering a solution to the conflict
Maxine Walden: dreams that attempt to master, to transform, but cannot as the 'stuff' remains too raw, to rupturing of thought and repose...
Alfred Kelberry: that's my worry about interpreting dreams by ourselves. people may put themselves to danger.
TR Amat: Some of my childhood nightmares only started to be dealt with when I began to practice meditation, which drained all the fear out of them.
Alfred Kelberry: making up things out of nowhere
Pila Mulligan: facing your fear in a dream is sometimes easier than in waking times
Maxine Walden: yes, meditation may be a kind of empathic comforting presence
Maxine Walden: but Alf, I would suggest that when we ponder our dreams
Lia Rikugun: i remember having had terrible dreams but wasnt frightened while sleeping
Maxine Walden: that we are not making up things, we are allowing our
TR Amat: Meditation gave me another way of handling the interface between my unconscious and conscious?
Maxine Walden: associations to link our experiences
Fefonz Quan meditates, and still has all kinds of strange and enteraining dreams
Alfred Kelberry: i mean, if you get killed in a dream, it may cause some people a lot of stress.
Maxine Walden: our various experiences so that we might glean meaning and order from the unthought about experiences
Fefonz Quan: dream people Alf?
Alfred Kelberry: what?
Fefonz Quan: (cause some people)
Maxine Walden: it may be interesting to consider that most of what we are afraid of
Maxine Walden: are fantasies, and fears
Pila Mulligan: I had several close encounters with poisonous snakes in my youth, leaving me with a snake anxiety that actually worked itself out to some degree in dreams
Maxine Walden: which to the pre-thinking self are very real 'things'
Fefonz Quan: i had some snakes dreams too, Pila
Maxine Walden: interesting Pila, a very nice example of the help/work of dreams
Pila Mulligan: they become less threatneing in dreams :)
Pila Mulligan: eventually
TR Amat: I experimented with past life regression, and that helped me deal with some of my phobias.
Alfred Kelberry: interesting, pila
Alfred Kelberry: glad it worked out for you :)
Maxine Walden: and the young personality which cannot manage the huge emotions it has to bear develops fears as well from those internal 'snakes', too big emotions
TR Amat: Some of my dreams about fears were very strange...
Maxine Walden: so there can be external and internal fearful images, and we become afraid, sometimes for good reasons, but always because of something which seems dangerous
Eyana Runningbear: so, are snakes often a sign of untapped or buried emotions from childhood?
TR Amat: Snakes might bite you. Bad. :)
Maxine Walden: can be, Eyana
TR Amat: Some people have fears with no obvious roots.
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Pila Mulligan: TR, did your experiment with past life regression invovle dreams?
Fefonz Quan: For me snakes are among other frightful dreams experiences, like insects or other things, that are very fast and dangerous as well, so i know i wouldn't be able to run frm them even if i tries
Fefonz Quan: tried
Fefonz Quan: (not to say flying creatures)
TR Amat: Dreams did mix in to some extent with the regression. I regarded he regression as a sort of exploration, and not necessarily as 'real'.
Maxine Walden: just as we cannot run from our inner frightening thoughts, Fefonz?
Alfred Kelberry: fef, it's funny, whenever i try to run away from something in a dream, it's terribly slow :)
Pila Mulligan: face your fear -- waking or sleeping :)
Fefonz Quan: that sounds easier, infact )
Lia Rikugun: :)
Fefonz Quan: :)
TR Amat: The past life of being a scientist among beings that seemed to be floating in something like the envelope of a gas giant planet was interesting...
Maxine Walden: I am wondering if it would be interesting to consider staying on the lookout for a dram or two, each of us, over the week
TR Amat: The way of thinks of those creatures seemed very non-human.
TR Amat: of thinking*
Alfred Kelberry: tr, easy.. you're a robot :)
Fefonz Quan: i can give an example from the last days about it
TR Amat: A lot more strange than a human-built robot...
Maxine Walden: As a workshop interested in dreams, we might consider trying to detect a dream or two over the week. How does that sound?
Storm Nordwind: What characteristics should we be looking out for Maxine?
Pila Mulligan: sure, Maxine -- fun
Alfred Kelberry: tr, maybe a mutation? :)
Maxine Walden: I would suggest we take notepad to bedside, and to just open our mind, think of having a dream...
Maxine Walden: sort of ask our dreaming function to do a little homework.
Pila Mulligan: Fefonz, did you want to give an example?
Alfred Kelberry: you mean to program our dreams?
Storm Nordwind: It is certainly true that we can preprogram ourselves like that.
Fefonz Quan: just if others want to hear it :)
Pila Mulligan: I would like to
Alfred Kelberry: sure, fef
Myna Maven: I would as well.
Maxine Walden: Not to program our dreams, Fefonz, but to invite a dream
Fefonz Quan: (that wasn't me programing)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Alfred Kelberry: too late, fef :)
Alfred Kelberry: it's been programmed :)
TR Amat: Last time I tried to program my dreams I awoke with no clear memory of any, except they were unpleasant, and I'd had a broken night's sleep.
Maxine Walden: sorry, misundersttod, didn't read the text fully
Pila Mulligan: but Fefonz, despite the cnofusion, what was your example?
Pila Mulligan: please
Fefonz Quan: ok, i was returning to my home (which is abroad)
Fefonz Quan: and in the garden there where some mutant insects
Fefonz Quan: mutant in the sense that they had strange colors, bigger then usual, and weird anyway.
Fefonz Quan: entering the house, there where some of them there to, and to cut to the end
Fefonz Quan: one of them developed suddenly wings and jumped to my mouth
Pila Mulligan: a kiss?
Fefonz Quan: which was very unpleasant, and trying to get it out i woke up
Fefonz Quan: (into my mouth)
Fefonz Quan: the end.
Alfred Kelberry: eek
Pila Mulligan: odd dream
Alfred Kelberry: did you feel it in your mouth?
Fefonz Quan: yep
Lia Rikugun: when you woke up?
Alfred Kelberry: bleh
Lia Rikugun: you still felt it?
Fefonz Quan: nope
Alfred Kelberry: found something? :)
Maxine Walden: as if something scary wastrying to 'get inside'?
Pila Mulligan: the idiom 'putting words in your mouth' comes to mind
Fefonz Quan: i don't quite understand that
Fefonz Quan: (maxine)
TR Amat: Not chewy/crunchy bugs then?
Alfred Kelberry: tr :)
Fefonz Quan: crunchy with a chance of stingy, TR :)
Maxine Walden: just wondering about the imagery and sequence of the images, if the dream conveyed a fear of something unpleasant trying to get inside of you -- not an uncommon fear sometimes. but I may be very off target
Alfred Kelberry: fef, are you afraid of insects in rl?
TR Amat: I don't think most dreams have a straight-forward symbology.
Fefonz Quan: the bags where the most frightening issue in the dream, other then that it was cool
TR Amat: Quite a few of my dreams seem to boil down to lack of control of my life...
Fefonz Quan: only the ones that can sting you, sort of say, but not particularly
Caledonia Heron: that's funny coming from a robot TR :)
Maxine Walden: But, Fefonz, I may have just given an example of what not to do: try to suggest a meaning without the dreamer doing so first
Alfred Kelberry: cal :)
TR Amat: But, that is a question of extracting a theme, not analysing specific imagery.
Alfred Kelberry: i sense the revolution, cal :)
Fefonz Quan: so i should try, Maxine?
Storm Nordwind: It may be something as simple as a fear of the unconventional (the weird colours, sizes etc.). If so, it is very deep-rooted, as getting into your house might represent you anyway (you=house) but they didn't stop there! But that's just classical dream interpretation!
Maxine Walden: yep, fefonz
Fefonz Quan: so for me mostly the fear of something which maybe unconventional, but the main thing is that
Pila Mulligan: Pila's idea: Fefonz's dream was related to this SL meeting -- as an image, here, it was juxtaposed with the confusion in talking about programming a dream (that, as someone said, can have distatseful results) -- the bugs were those thoughts that buzzed about in confusion and tried to get into his mouth.
Maxine Walden: How be we each invite a dream for our next workshop. And then we would have a chance to think about it ahead of time and share it and our thoughts about it with the group?
TR Amat: I claim to be (mostly a self-willed robot. I definitely developed my own personality, when I was not really supposed to have one. :)
Alfred Kelberry: fef, when you saw that mutating bug in the house. did you think that it could jump in your mouth before it did?
Fefonz Quan: i have a feeling that it is faster/meaner then me,
Fefonz Quan: so i wouldn't be able to stop it when attacked
TR Amat: Lack of control of the situation?
Fefonz Quan: yep, a bit of it
Maxine Walden: It is 3pm and we should respect the time boundary as some of us have other committments. We can talk further next time
Pila Mulligan: thnaks Maxine
Storm Nordwind nods
Maxine Walden: and such things as control/or not, fears, etc we could pursue...or let our dreams do so
Alfred Kelberry: thanks, maxine
Fefonz Quan: Thanks Maxine
Fefonz Quan: :)
Alfred Kelberry: i'd like to hear more dreams next meeting :)
Maxine Walden: OK, see you next time, with our invited dreams
Lia Rikugun: thank you was very interesting
Storm Nordwind: Thank you again Maxine!
Myna Maven: Thanks, Maxine.
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