Pema Pera invites anyone interested to explore phenomenology, using our own life as a laboratory.  No prior knowledge of phenomenology, or any other kind of philosophy required. We will focus on actual exploration and critical reflection, in that order.  If there is enough interest, we will make this into a mini-series, with a weekly one-hour workshop, every Friday.  At the first workshop, on December 19, we collectively chose our first exploration, as homework. Between workshops we will do our homework individually, off-line.  At each next workshop we will: 1) report what we found; 2) critically reflect on that; 3) together choose a new form of exploration as the homework for the next week.

stevenaia Michinaga: hello
genesis Zhangsun: Hey there!
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Pema
Alfred Kelberry: oh, pema! :)
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Stim!
Stim Morane: Hi Gen
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Pema!
Rene2008 Zanzibar: Threedee is magnificent
Alfred Kelberry: cal, your mic is on :)
Alfred Kelberry: can hear you typing :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Genesis
Maxine Walden: love the snow
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Steve!
Alfred Kelberry: pema, you're back in tokyo now?
Wol Euler: hello everyone
Caledonia Heron: hey everyone :)
Maxine Walden: hi, wol
Alfred Kelberry: yes, snow is a great addition - thanks to storm :)
Alfred Kelberry: wol!
Wol Euler: hello alf!
Alfred Kelberry: your seat is free :)
Pema Pera: Yes, Alf, in Tokyo, 7 am here
Alfred Kelberry: you like it better than kyoto?
Pema Pera: no, like both
Alfred Kelberry: alright. cause when you were going to kyoto you made a sad face :)
Pema Pera: that was a typo :)
Alfred Kelberry: ah, ok :)
Alfred Kelberry: well, use japanese emicons then :)
genesis Zhangsun: Hi everyone welcome to the Kira Cafe
Alfred Kelberry: ^^
genesis Zhangsun: and hte first Phenomenology Workshop
genesis Zhangsun: please see http://www.kira.org/
genesis Zhangsun: Kira
genesis Zhangsun: * for more about Kira
genesis Zhangsun: shall we get started?
Alfred Kelberry: oh, pema! have you been to bartube yet?
Pema Pera: Yes, let's get started!
genesis Zhangsun: Oh will we use text?
Pema Pera: So this is the first in a mini-series of workshops
Pema Pera: and yes, I think it is best to use text
Wol Euler: text please
genesis Zhangsun: In that case...
Alfred Kelberry: have you seen so kuu?
genesis Zhangsun: if you participate you will be included as part of a public transcript :)
Threedee Shepherd: Is voice going to be used?
genesis Zhangsun: that will go on the Kira website
Threedee Shepherd: .
Pema Pera: no, Threedee
Pema Pera: I think text is better for these kinds of events, for many reasons
Threedee Shepherd: I agree
Pema Pera: transcript availability being one, so that those who can't come every week have continuity
Pema Pera: (which means almost everybody!)
Pema Pera: also, it will allow those who did come to reread and see what we decided concerning the experiments we are going to do
Rocket Sellers accepted your inventory offer.
Pema Pera: remember, the reason for the workshop was to move beyond debate and speculation
Alfred Kelberry takes a deep breath and calms down.. alright, i'm ready :)
Pema Pera: from talking to doing
Wendy Chaplin: hey everybody :-)
Mickorod Renard accepted your inventory offer.
Pema Pera: of course we have to talk, but the focus will be on doing
Pema Pera: Hi Wendy
Alfred Kelberry: to get all emperical :)
Pema Pera: This being the first in our series of mini-workshops, the sole task today is to decide upon our home work for the coming week
Wendy Chaplin accepted your inventory offer.
Pema Pera: in other words, to decide on the kind of experiment(s) that we want to try out between now and a week from today
Pema Pera: we can do those experiments anywhere, in RL and in SL
Pema Pera: and as part of the 24-hour day, walking around, or sitting or lying in bed; interacting with others or being by yourself
Pema Pera: Well, does anyone have any suggestions for a starting experiment -- or questions, comments about the whole idea?
Alfred Kelberry: how many meetings in this series do you plan?
Pema Pera: no plans -- as long as we have fun, and as long as they seem useful
Maxine Walden: I would appreciate hearing a bit more about the 'doing' so I can appreciate the sphere of doing we are aiming for
stevenaia Michinaga: CAn you summerize ther "Whole Idea"
Pema Pera: hahaha, sure
Pema Pera: the idea is to explore phenomenology
Pema Pera: and the `doing' is to go beyond talking about phenomenology
Pema Pera: Perhaps an example would help:
Alfred Kelberry: why gilles isn't here? he promised to keep an eye on you, pema :)
Pema Pera: phenomenology claims that the way science is treating the world is too onesidedly through objectivication
Pema Pera: the subject is treated as an object, often without realizing it
Pema Pera: we tend to treat ourselves as objects
Pema Pera: talking about "my brain", "my hormones", etc
Pema Pera: while bypassing our very own base of awareness
Pema Pera: so the "doing", to answer Maxine
Pema Pera: would involve trying to find ways to treat ourselves as real subjects, not objects
Maxine Walden: experiments then in subjective experience? or relating to our subjectivity?
Maxine Walden: rather than observing it objectively?
Pema Pera: subjective and objective are interesting terms
Ganymede Blackburn accepted your inventory offer.
Pema Pera: and distinct from the terms subject and object
Maxine Walden: really?
Threedee Shepherd: perhaps a concise definition of the differences between anything being a subject ot an object, will help?
Pema Pera: what scientists call "objective" is really, when you look at what happens in practice, the result of intersubjective agreement
Pema Pera: when enough scientists measure something and agree, the call the results objective
Pema Pera: but it always remains inter-subjective, strictly speaking
Pema Pera: similarly, there is no reason that a study of the subject cannot equally be inter-subjective
arabella Ella: is thatcos our observation may affect the object observed?
Pema Pera: and no reason not to call that objective too.
arabella Ella: or due to Kant's ideas on perception of reality?
Pema Pera: Threedee, with object and subject, I just mean the everyday use:
Pema Pera: I see a tree: I am the subject, the tree is the object
Pema Pera: and yes, arabella, subject and object are, emperically both part of experience, are both being influenced by our experience
arabella Ella: but ... is it the tree you see or greenness, a shape, etc from which you assume it is a tree?
Pema Pera: it is only when we decide, inter-subjectively, what the object "really" is, that we attempt to lift it out of experience
Pema Pera: all of the above, I think, arabella, what do you think?
Ganymede Blackburn: does this mean that the difference between a subject and an object is a chosen point of view?
arabella Ella: yes ... although strangely it seems to fit in with davidson on triangulation
Turu Parx: hi everyone
arabella Ella: your concept of intersubjectivity i mean
Turu Parx accepted your inventory offer.
arabella Ella: very interesting
Pema Pera: I don't think so, Ganymede: I mean it is a really simple way, starting with experience: I touch a cup, I am the subject, the cup is the object, anyone would agree.
Pema Pera: I gave the example earlier of a blind person with a stick
Dar Innis: depends on what is meant by 'I'
Ganymede Blackburn: if you use a different word in the place of look that means something equivalent in every respect, except it makes the tree the subject?
Turu Parx: lol you guys are actually talking philosophy?
Pema Pera: before trying to see whether that person accurately "feels" the room, let us first make clear that he/she *only* touches the stick, and *infers* the presence of things in the room
Pema Pera: so I suggest, as a first experiment, to find our stick!
Wester Kiranov: So, pema, if "it is only when we decide, inter-subjectively, what the object "really" is, that we attempt to lift it out of experience", can we ever agree on experience?
Pema Pera: Can we find something more direct, somethign we are actually using, but in a transparent forgetful way, in everything we do, each moment
Pema Pera: that's a great question, Wester, let's try to find out!
Egotrek Skytower: judgement
Pema Pera: let us go slow . . .
Dar Innis: We can find alot of that if we are intensely mindful enough
Pema Pera: let us see what we can really, empirically agree upon . . . .
Pema Pera: yes, Dar, and we can help each other to do so
Pema Pera: and to stay honest in doing so
Pema Pera: I dont' mind if it would take ten or twenty sessions . . . if we could really find the stick that we use to explore the world
Pema Pera: we would have gain an enormous amount of insight
Pema Pera: into all aspects of our life
Pema Pera: and the world
Alfred Kelberry: what is your stick, pema?
Pema Pera: that's the question, Alfred, what is our stick
Pema Pera: let's explore
Pema Pera: not speculate
Pema Pera: let's experiment
Pema Pera: how shall we start?
Alfred Kelberry: oh.. we're looking for "our" stick?
Pema Pera: each in his/her own way and collectively, both
Caledonia Heron: same stick for everyone?
Pema Pera: let's find out!
Alfred Kelberry: em.. alright
arabella Ella: via perception ... observation of our own way of perceiving what is outside our thinking?
Wester Kiranov: we cannot even assume our sticks will resemble another
Pema Pera: that's one approach, Arabella!
Pema Pera: no assuming, indeed, Wester
Pema Pera: just experimenting!
Pema Pera: Does anyone have an idea of how to get started, with a first simple experiment?
Pema Pera: the simpler the better
Pema Pera: to do the coming week
Wol Euler is not sure
Pema Pera: and then to report about here, one week from now
Pema Pera: and to compare notes
Storm Nordwind: Are there any traps we might fall into when trying this out, individually or collectively Pema?
Pema Pera: let's find out, Storm
Wol Euler: if I understand you correctly, the goal would be to neutrally observe myself observing, to discover how I "do" it.
Dar Innis: well, i like buddhist insight meditation, but i doubt a week of that would be enough
Pema Pera: Perhaps I should summarize briefly:
Pema Pera: We find ourselves living in a world of objects
Mickorod Renard: what about introspection?
Pema Pera: described pretty accurately by science, in their material aspects
Pema Pera: but we also find many other objects -- let's say in the linguistic sense:
Pema Pera: beauty, responsability, laws -- all non-material
arabella Ella: i would debate that sytatement ... 'described pretty accurately by science'
Pema Pera: and each of us feels him/her-self to be the subject of all observations and actions
Egotrek Skytower: hmm#
Pema Pera: so the question I would like to raise is: how much of our understanding is speculation/habituatlion and how much is really empirical
Pema Pera: can we experiment and try to get more insight about the subject-object relationship?
Wester Kiranov: would it help to choose a simple object, and regularly observe our interaction with it? Something like that?
Pema Pera: we can use labels like introspection -- but there is so much baggage with such labels
Dar Innis: empirical understanding is rooted in habituation with experience, taking things as we think they are
Pema Pera: perhaps better to choose our own terms along the way
Dar Innis: i think breath is a good object
Pema Pera: as for science being accurate, we can discuss that too, interesting question
Dar Innis: as it straddles the voluntary and involuntary
Egotrek Skytower: may shoot dar again*
Pema Pera: Yes, Wester, taht would be one way
Pema Pera: and yes, Dar
Maxine Walden: one issue that comes up for me is that different states of mind seem to 'produce' or be related with different modes of perception/relationships to reality
Pema Pera: oh yes, Maxine, absolutely!
Maxine Walden: and those states of mind vary, are fluid, perhaps from moment to moment
arabella Ella: some people 'see' more than others do you imply?
Caledonia Heron: maybe flip the relationship, be the object - one thing to try
Pema Pera: yes, Cal, that would be fun!
Caledonia Heron: maybe stand apart from both the subject and the object
Pema Pera: everyone sees in his/her own way, and differently at different times, I think, Arabella
Dar Innis: if you look for yourself as an object you won't find any one thing
Rocket Sellers: in SL you are a subject and an object at the same time
Pema Pera: Yes, all interesting approaches, we're getting there!
Caledonia Heron: maybe see if you can drop both subject and object
Pema Pera: to look at yourself as an object may be very interesting
Rocket Sellers: so, is my avatar my stick?
Pema Pera: let's find out!
arabella Ella: but ... please excuse me ... i would also find difficulties with saying we see things in an empirical way ...
Pema Pera: yes, Arabella?
Turu Parx: pema: i think you have a point in that 'everyone sees in their own way, and differently.....' .. but how far can that be taken?
Pema Pera: let's find out, Turu
arabella Ella: empirical is scientific ... and science chooses its own terms ... some of which are 'fiction' for want of a better word
Egotrek Skytower: lets..
Threedee Shepherd: I think "breath" carries much "baggage" in medatative traditions to be a good starting point.
Pema Pera: I mean "empirical" as "based on experience", nothing more
arabella Ella: ok ty
Maxine Walden: perhaps even now we each are searching our data base re modes of experiencing/perceiving and trying to 'label' what works for the individual 'us'
Pema Pera: yes, Threedee, it is not the simplest place to start, I agree
Dar Innis: well, the phenomenologists are upstarts in directly exploring experience when compared to eastern philosophy
Turu Parx: i mean... how can one explain communication unless there is some sort of similarity in the way we experience ?
Pema Pera: let's see how far we get, Turu
Egotrek Skytower: cool
Pema Pera: let's try something, and then cmpare notes
Egotrek Skytower: then shut dar up
Caledonia Heron: maybe start at the end, take the object and look back at the subject
Pema Pera: yes, Cal, that would be fun!
Dar Innis: what is your deal egotrek?
Threedee Shepherd whispers neurologically "mirror neurons" but that will take us too far afield, Turu
Pema Pera: wiggling the wires, so to speak
Dar Innis: try stating something about the discussion instead of me
Pema Pera: <- Cal
Storm Nordwind agrees with Cal
Pema Pera: Cal, how would you do that?
Curious George: Hello everyone
Curious George declined your inventory offer.
Rocket Sellers: hi Curious
Pema Pera: Hi George!
Ganymede Blackburn: what makes the subject different from the object, anyway? Hi, George. :)
arabella Ella: so where do you suggest we start from Pema?
Pema Pera: let's find out Ganymede
Pema Pera: we can start in many place, Arabella
Wester Kiranov: I think cal had some idea - let's hear more
Mickorod Renard: yes cal
Caledonia Heron: hmmm, in the way of seeing being and then the being sees back, something along that line
Rocket Sellers: Yes, Cal how do you execute that abstract idea?
Egotrek Skytower: need help on existence?
Egotrek Skytower: lol
Egotrek Skytower: easy
Pema Pera: Just like Galileo started with very simple experiments, studying objects, let's do something similarly simple, studying subjects
Turu Parx: caledonia: what sort of being are you talking of ? dasien?
Turu Parx: *dasein
Pema Pera: perhaps without introducing notions like "being" at this point?
Caledonia Heron: a type of meditative practice you could call it Rocket
Caledonia Heron: ok, simple observations then
Pila Mulligan accepted your inventory offer.
Pema Pera: you mentioned, Cal, letting an object look back at the subject, reversing the roles
Ganymede Blackburn: I think the verbs might be the issue here. They force our hands on the subject/object issue.
Pema Pera: is that what you meant?
Caledonia Heron: yes, that was one postulate
Pema Pera: Ganymede, can you say a bit more?
Egotrek Skytower: i bet he can
Pema Pera: And yes, that seems like a simple enough thing to try, Cal
Ganymede Blackburn: well, you can say that youre looking at a tree, and thus you become the object. theres no equivalent for the tree, its being watched. so still an object. we need new verbs.
Rocket Sellers: the tree is also looking at you?
Pema Pera: perhaps we can just formulate a way to do the experiment
Pema Pera: and do it over the coming week
Ganymede Blackburn: the tree is affecting you by having you look at it.
Egotrek Skytower: sounds good pema
Caledonia Heron: maybe you could all be the same thing so no subject, object, looking
Pema Pera: and then try to figure out what we learn from it next week?
Dar Innis: well, the tree itself is a conceptual conclusion based in visual forms. the tree is in your head.
Pema Pera: May I try to formulate a specific experiment?
Wol Euler: please
arabella Ella: looking at a tree makes the perception of the tree part of my thinking process
Maxine Walden: please do, Pema
Wester Kiranov: please do, pema
Pema Pera: so that we can then all make modifications if we like?
Ganymede Blackburn: you may say that the tree doesnt choose to be looked at, but thats a matter of free will, a whole nother can of worms... :)
Pema Pera: Okay, here is one:
Alfred Kelberry: cal, it's essentially the same thing as soon as you start to interact
Pema Pera: Take a particular object, any object, say a cup or a tree or a pen, anything, but choose one specific one, and look at that object for a few minutes
Egotrek Skytower: no
Egotrek Skytower: just say it man
Pema Pera: during that time, try to become as aware as you can of your own role of the subject and the role of the pen or whatever as the object
Pema Pera: then look up, relax, take a good breath, and then
Pema Pera: reverse the roles:
Pema Pera: let the pen look at you
Pema Pera: try to feel/see/observe/notices as many details as you can
Turu Parx: pema: what do you mean by 'look'?
Pema Pera: of how it feels to take the object pole of experience
Pema Pera: to identify with the object pole of experience
Pema Pera: while letting the pen take the more active subject role
Pema Pera: that
Pema Pera: that is all!
Egotrek Skytower: to identify with inanimate objects?
Pema Pera: looking means looking, very simple
Pema Pera: nothing esoteric
Pema Pera: nothing complex
Pema Pera: sure, why now Egotrek
Pema Pera: *not
Pema Pera: why not
Wester Kiranov: not imagine what the pen would feel like, i suppose?
Turu Parx: in that case, how can a pen look if it's lacking eyes and consciousness?
arabella Ella: but ... is this similar to something 'gazing' at me?
Egotrek Skytower: i care abit more about people than pens
Pema Pera: good question, Wester! NO, don't imagine anything above just doing it
Dar Innis: coffee cups have no eyes to look with. we're exploring an imagining.
Pema Pera: Great question Turu!
Pema Pera: Let's take a moment for that
Egotrek Skytower: ill try, sorry
Egotrek Skytower: okay
Turu Parx: sounds more like poetry than philosophy
Pema Pera: A pen has no eyes, so normally you would not expect a pen to see yourself
Egotrek Skytower: it seems well silly tbh
Egotrek Skytower: i feel awkward even trying
Pema Pera: BUT within your experience both the pen and you are given
Pema Pera: so you have the freedom *within* your experience, to reverse the roles
Pema Pera: does that make sense?
Turu Parx: not entirely...
Wester Kiranov: we're not expecting the pen to see, we're exploring the difference in our roles
Egotrek Skytower: not to me
Dar Innis: the pen is not given in experience, its given by thinking about experience.
Caledonia Heron: I will try it
Pema Pera: yes, Wester
Caledonia Heron: see what I get
Pema Pera: that is essential
arabella Ella: the pen is 'experienced' or 'perceived' not ... given
Curious George: oops, gotta go....
Maxine Walden: yes, I thibk it does, we are changing our perspective, not expecting anything of the pen, really, but changing our view
Pema Pera: let us not imagine how it would be -- let's just do ti
Dar Innis: which object should we consider?
Maxine Walden: will try to do that. Have to go, will give it a try
Wester Kiranov: It sounds like a good start to me.
Caledonia Heron: I doubt it matters Dar
Maxine Walden is Offline
Pema Pera: To put it in a more scientific way of speaking: we can try to find an extra degree of freedom in our daily-life experience, one we normally don't explore, probably because there is no evoluntionary reason to do so (that would be one speculation)
Turu Parx: arabella.. if the pen is only 'perceived' or 'experienced' and not given, why is it still is, when i'm not looking? (Please don't say "how do you know it;s still there" lol)
Dar Innis: the concept of the pen, the visual data of the pen, or what we imagine to be the pen itself?
Pema Pera: the pen itself
Pema Pera: as best as we can
Alfred Kelberry: i guess we could learn something about this "chage of roles" from pagans :)
Pema Pera: I suggest that we try different objects
Pema Pera: everyone can pick their own object
Pema Pera: and you can do it first with a pen, then with a tree, whatever
arabella Ella: @ Turu ... only because if we use the term 'given' we are postulating an intermediaty between ourselves and the object which is not necessary
Egotrek Skytower: geez
Dar Innis: so, we are imagining what an imagining might think of us
Pila Mulligan: ... and then with a dog, cat or bird?
Egotrek Skytower: we already are the imaginations of ourselves.. why confuse it more
Caledonia Heron: ha ha, with yourself
Turu Parx: arabella: got your point... given by whome you mean?
Wester Kiranov: I think it would be good to write down the experiment in short somewhere
Pema Pera is wondering how we will be gathering lab reports from those who actually would like to do this . . . perhaps we can create a google email group, so that by Thursday, say, everyone can send in their (short) report?
Ganymede Blackburn: Im thinking about my contact lenses. theyre itchy. no, wait, thats me. the lenses are dry, so they feel my eyes are too dry. yet my mere presense has kept them relatively moist all day. and.... Im drawing a blank here, sorry. maybe if my eyes werent itchy.
arabella Ella: yes Turu ... an irrelevant and unneeded intermediary ... Sellars and the myth of the Givan
Storm Nordwind: Good idea Pema
Turu Parx: perhaps then we should focus on fixing the word "given", rather than the metaphysical essence of the pen?
Alfred Kelberry: pema, when i try to become a pen, i give it consciousness - is it cheating? :)
Eyana Runningbear declined your inventory offer.
Wester Kiranov: we're not focusing on any essence of the pen
genesis Zhangsun: well perhaps we could use the Kira Cafe google group
Dar Innis: why not explore the relationship rather than the conceptual objects participating in the relationship?
Pema Pera: Anyone who would like to be on the google group, please send me an email to , and I will then add that email address that you use to reach me. Please make the subject line "WORKSHOP" so that I can find the emails in my pile
arabella Ella: Turu ... i prefer just the metaphysical 'presence ' of the pen
Pema Pera: no imaging, just doing the experiment
Turu Parx: arabella: presence... i like that
Turu Parx: the pen is.
Pema Pera: as raw and direct as you can, without straining -- just keep it simple
Ganymede Blackburn: were assuming that pens dont have consciousnesses, but if they did, how would we know?
Ganymede Blackburn: no cheating there...
arabella Ella: yes Turu ... existence rather than essence
Mickorod Renard: are we not transfering our consciousness into the pen?
Pema Pera: no, Mick
Mickorod Renard: ok
Pema Pera: we're keeping it really simple
Ganymede Blackburn: and what is consciousness, anyway? dont answer, please. :)
Pema Pera: not trying to add or interpret or speculate
Pema Pera: just let the pen look at you -- and be open to what that may mean, experimentally
Pema Pera: nothing mysterious or complex
Pema Pera: and just report what you find
Mickorod Renard: so the pen becomes the camera?
Pema Pera: if we all write a short report, by Thursday the latest
Turu Parx: Pema: i still find that quite a bizarre thought experiment :)
Ganymede Blackburn: just how our presence affects the pen, then.
Pema Pera: we can all read our reports and discuss them here next week
Pema Pera: Mick and Turu, let's not pre-judge
Pema Pera: let's do it, and THEN wonder what it may mean
Pema Pera: let's not influence the experiment
Storm Nordwind agrees
Wol Euler: "do, or do not" as Yoda said :)
Mickorod Renard: ok
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: well, the hours is almost up
Turu Parx: Pema: sorry mate, not prejudging, but I'm not getting what the pen is supposed to be looking for
Pema Pera: any last question, suggestion?
Rocket Sellers: question -
Pema Pera: Turu, you can just let a pen look at you
Pema Pera: without any further idea
Rocket Sellers: do this experiment in SL or anywhere?
Pema Pera: see what happens
Pema Pera: and write down"nothing happens" if nothing happens
Pema Pera: or "such and such happens" if that happens
Pema Pera: very very very simple!
Pema Pera: anywhere, Rocket, but at least also in RL
arabella Ella: Pema ... not sure how ... how do we read each others reports?
Pema Pera: in the most simple and natural state
Pema Pera: Arabella, if you email me at with subject WORKSHOP
Pema Pera: then I will add you to the new google email group
arabella Ella: ok
Mickorod Renard: no need to become remote viewers at this stage then pema
arabella Ella: thanks
Turu Parx: do you guys have a weekly meeting?
genesis Zhangsun: yes Turu every Friday
Pema Pera: and everyone who does so can send their report by THursday, the latest, to that group
genesis Zhangsun: 2pm SLT
Turu Parx: cool
Pema Pera: and then yes, at 2 pm Friday
Turu Parx: is there a title to these meetings?
Pema Pera: phenomenology workshop
Pema Pera: I believe, Gen, correct?
Turu Parx: aah..
genesis Zhangsun: yes that is correct
genesis Zhangsun: if you go to our website you will see our Events Calendar
Pema Pera: okay, time for breakfast for me here in Tokyo!
genesis Zhangsun: in case you want to check out our other events too
Caledonia Heron: concurrent with Kira Cafe Happy Hour
Turu Parx: thank you :)
Storm Nordwind: And you'll see the calendar above the bar for up coming events
genesis Zhangsun: and if anyone has too many groups in SL but wants updates you can join the Kira Cafe google group
Wol Euler: bye pema, thanks for the suggestion. enjoy your day.
Pema Pera: thank you all for coming, and thank you even more, those who are wiling to actually go do the experiment and report about it!
Alfred Kelberry: ok, i'll try it on the weekend. thanks, pema.
Pema Pera: ciao, everybody!
Threedee Shepherd: bye folks
genesis Zhangsun: Transcripts will be available under "Events Transcripts"
Mickorod Renard: thankyou very much for the interesting topic
Wol Euler: bye all, take care.
genesis Zhangsun: bye
Alfred Kelberry: so, no rules applied. just pure feelings.
Tarmel Udimo: hi wol - you have jeans on?
Tarmel Udimo: didn't see
Becka Finesmith: HI everyone
Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Becka
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Pila
Storm Nordwind thinks it's time for skating on the ice rink next to the Cafe
Pila Mulligan: hi Steve
Turu Parx: is there another discussion shortly?
Becka Finesmith: ust popped in to say hi - See you all soon :)
Scathach Rhiadra: night Becka:)
Rocket Sellers: scusi
genesis Zhangsun: Bye everyone thanks for coming!
Storm Nordwind: Check the events board Turu. Seems like next is in 23 hours
Alfred Kelberry: thanks, gen
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Gen
Turu Parx: lol .. enough time for a nap then .. thanks Storm